[00:00:00]

Stephen Licciardello: Now, Dana, you're the author of a book called Gasping for Air, the stronghold of narcissistic abuse. Now that in itself has the title tells us so much in in your own words how would you describe a narcissist and do you believe a narcissist is born are they're a product of their environment growing up?

[00:00:21]

Dana Diaz: Good questions. I I the narcissism is so complicated on a very, very basic level, just a simplistic definition. It's somebody who has just an innate need to feel important and superior. And, again, that is a very simple description. And I say that because I I feel like it's it comes from a very deep seated insecurity. I think they don't like themselves. I think they have issues with who they are, and they don't wanna face that. So they look for other people to project back to them the idea of who they would like to be, if that makes any sense.

[00:01:01]

Dana Diaz: It's just that some go to, you know, more severe tactics to try to, you know, fulfill that ego. As far as where they come from, you know, there is a debate on that because there is that nature versus nurture theory. I'm having a hard time. I've read a lot of things and talk to people about the idea about if a narcissist is born a narcissist. I just can't jump on that bandwagon. I think, at least in my experience from the narcissists, and I've known many that I've experienced, I feel like it come again, it comes from that insecurity, and I feel like they either were made to feel so extraordinarily important by their parents, like, to a point where it's not just encouraging your child to have a selfie healthy self esteem, but actually making your child feel like they really are above other people to where they have that sense of entitlement. And and I I'm thinking of somebody right now that I know I we all know that person that honestly has no idea that they're they're just like everybody else and that they don't deserve, you know, extra special treatment. Or on the other side of that, and this is in the case of both my stepfather and my ex husband, that they were or at least they felt, perceived that they were neglected in some way, maybe emotionally or, you know, they just didn't have that support from their parental unit or their are, whoever raised the.

[00:02:34]

Dana Diaz: Because my stepfather came, he was actually and by both parents, he and his 4 siblings, and he was only a baby when that happened. So he grew up in the foster system and was abused. And I don't think he had that kind of, you know, support and a healthy, upbringing. And my just always felt very slighted because his older sister was definitely the golden child and favored, and he was not. So I you know, there was always and of that chip on his shoulder. So he needed to feel like this this, you know I I mean, I had to really pep him up and make him feel really good about himself. It's just that it get it gets exhausting when you're not getting that back in a relationship and you're not getting anything. You're just getting abused in every way possible.

[00:03:22]

Dana Diaz: But, you know, there's other theories. I've even heard people the. There's a big group of people that think they're aliens, and I I I don't believe that either. But, you know, who knows? What do I know? But I'm definitely on the nurture side of the nature versus nurture issue.

[00:03:36]

Sharlene Licciardello: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:37]

Stephen Licciardello: Good point. What was your breaking point that you said, that's it. I need to leave.

[00:03:42]

Dana Diaz: There were a lot of them. There were a lot of them. And, you know, the the hard part is that that's what people don't understand because most people don't believe victims of abuse because we don't speak up. We never wanna face the consequences of exposing our abuser because we're the ones that have have to go home to them and and they're not gonna like being exposed. And there's so many reasons to stay. People think if if you're unhappy, you just walk out. But when you have a house with somebody and your families are intertwined and, you know, there's financial reasons and, like, we had a son, you don't you don't get married to get divorced and you wanna stay together, but it just for me, there were so many times I should have. You know? Yeah.

[00:04:24]

Dana Diaz: Like I said, when a crowbar gets swung at your head, probably a good time to walk out. And there were so many other things. But unfortunately for me, it was when I became physically ill. I had I'll never forget it. It was November 3, 2018. I can remember that night. We just had another terrible, terrible incident between the 2 of us, and, you know, it was just a really bad night. And it wasn't that it was so different than any of the other times that we fought or that anything and, but I think that was the breaking point for my body physically the it just my I couldn't emotionally handle it anymore, so then my body just finally broke for me.

[00:05:07]

Dana Diaz: And from that night for 2 weeks after that, I had lost almost £20 for no reason. And it that was in 2 weeks. I dropped down to £93. I was skeletal. Looks great in a bikini, but it's not healthy. It was it was not good, and I couldn't breathe. And I had I I had about 2 dozen symptoms. My vision was going.

[00:05:31]

Dana Diaz: I couldn't see straight. I I was blacking out constantly past My heart, I was having arrhythmia. Just my whole body was in this complete flux of chaos. It took over a year. Started with my family doctor, got sent to this specialist, that specialist. Everyone wanted to throw a pill at me for a symptom. I needed to know what was wrong, though. Long story short, they got me with Mayo Clinic, which here in the US, I I I'm not sure if they're abroad, but they're the be all and all of of medical everything.

[00:06:05]

Dana Diaz: They took a cortisol test. Cortisol is a stress Sharlene, for those who don't know. It runs through your body. It should always be somewhere between and, depending on the time of day, whether you're sleeping or not, whether you're having a stressful reaction or not. Well, they did the test and they called and said, we think we compromised your labs because there's no way that your your results are this high. Okay. We did another cortisol test. They said, well, actually, your levels are that high.

[00:06:37]

Dana Diaz: Because both times, my levels were over 25100, and. Every day of the week, and they said that it had been running through me for so many years. You know? Again, you have my childhood and then all through this marriage, 45 years of my life the I had been living under this kind of stress the it actually had caused me this rare lung disease called upper airway resistance syndrome. It sounds like a lung disease. It's actually classified as a sleep disorder, which is weird. But the doctor, the neurologist, said it's like having COPD and fibromyalgia all at once. But they also saw that my body, with all this cortisol running through it, my white blood cell count had been completely diminished, and I was having all these autoimmune reactions because my white blood cells thought it had to eradicate something so it killed themselves off. So, I I mean, it's so hard for me to believe the living with all the stuff in me and keeping it in really just I mean, it it almost killed me because at at the worst point, the doctor said, and this was my breaking point, the doctor sat me down and said, your body is shutting down.

[00:07:51]

Dana Diaz: At that point, this was at the end of 2019, I was wearing a backpack oxygen machine with a mask just so I could keep my oxygen levels above 83%. And to give people perspective, during COVID, they said if your oxygen fell to 93% or less, that was a sign of COVID. My oxygen levels, we were just trying to keep them above 83%. I was very weak. I was very sick. I could barely just walk or I mean, my muscles were stiff. I mean, I felt like a corpse that was just walking around trying to get through every day. And that was when I finally just said, okay.

[00:08:29]

Dana Diaz: I just remember laying down that night and thinking, okay, Dana. Where did we go wrong? Like, what do I want? Do it this is not what I want. I felt like I had been living somebody else's life because I had been. This man had been dictating to me how things were gonna be to the point of what I would wear and what I could not wear and how I would do my hair and what lipstick I could wear and what I could eat and that I couldn't read. And I didn't even have a smartphone. He didn't like me on the Internet because, God forbid, I read and educated myself or had outside influence. You know? He moved me to the small Podunk town. You know? And here I have this degree in journalism and psychology, and and I'm scrubbing toilets for a living because he wanted me to clean houses with his friend's wife.

[00:09:15]

Dana Diaz: You know? He was trying to contain me and basically keep me in a cage, and it was killing me. I was miserable. I I just couldn't do it anymore. I wanted to be noble. I wanted to stay for my son. But at that point, my son was getting ready to be a senior in high school, and he was old enough. And he knew who his father was, and he hadn't seen or heard even half of what had gone on in that house and still has no idea, of most of it. But it was time for me to put me first.

[00:09:46]

Dana Diaz: And so that was when I finally took me 45 years of my life, but I finally had enough self respect to say no more. I'm done with the, and I gotta get out of here. And it's a beautiful thing because it was it was awful, the ending. And we had 2 the 2 most violent incidents between us after the divorce. But it's only been 3 years 3 months as I sit here today. And the miraculous thing was is that about the same time I ended my marriage, I also cut ties for the final time with my mother and stepfather who hadn't physically abused me, obviously, in my adulthood, but I was still enduring the verbal and the gaslighting and the you know, I had to just cut it cut them all out. I had to be done. And it was awful.

[00:10:35]

Dana Diaz: There was definitely a morning time because losing all these people and all the family members that sided with all 3 of them, you know, I felt shunned and exiled and banished, but I am at a healthy weight. I don't even know the last time I've used my oxygen machine. I can breathe on my own. I don't even have to measure my oxygen every day. And I'm I mean, I'm feeling good. I mean, the I still have moments, you know, where I'll have a symptom here or there, but I'm good. And it's it's just sad to me that I lived so miserably, not just mentally, but physically because of what people were doing to me. And they were doing it intentionally.

[00:11:19]

Dana Diaz: And that's what hurts even are, but but I'm doing really good. And so, you know, there's something to be said for for the toxicity, not just in the world. It's not just in the air you breathe and the things you put in your mouth. It's definitely more in people than anything else.

[00:11:34]

Sharlene Licciardello: Absolutely. And from what I can hear, like a lot of people say that, you know, they stay in that relationship like you said, And the a lot of times, it's because they're made to feel like they're the ones to blame for the other person's behavior towards them.

[00:11:48]

Dana Diaz: Yes. It's funny you say that because I I'm remarried now. The that's another happy, to a long time friend. I've known his family almost 20 years. Yeah. I'm I'm in a good place, but he read my book. He you know, you would think when you write a book that your husband actually comes along on the ride and he he supported it, but he hadn't read it until it was actually and when I'll never forget when he finished it, he closed it and he looked at me. He said, you got blamed for everything.

[00:12:18]

Dana Diaz: He said, everything was your fault. And I said, yes. Even things I wasn't even present for and had no part in, but that was my childhood too. I was the scapegoat. I am the ultimate scape. And it's tough to carry that burden because the reality is and and you can appreciate this, Sharlene, from a psychological perspective. I think a lot of times abuse victims, and definitely in my case, both in childhood and in my marriage, I think what helped me in my healing is that I realized that the the abuse, however it it was inflicted upon me, was really my abusers being unwilling to take accountability for their own healing. They were putting all their unhealed trauma and to carry.

[00:13:05]

Dana Diaz: They wanted me to carry that burden, and I had to release it, which meant releasing them because still to this day, all 3, they they don't think that anything's wrong. You know? God forbid the get any mental health, you know, assistance in any way. They they think it's me. I'm the one that's crazier. And you know what? They affected, but I'm not crazy. Nor will I ever say, I don't like when I hear people say I'm broken or I'm. You know, I was affected mentally and physically in terrible ways, but I will never call myself broken or damaged because I understand the value of self talk. I have enough of my stepfather's reel going through my head that the last thing I'm gonna do is sit here and call myself names and put labels on myself that I don't you know, there there's no justification.

[00:13:55]

Dana Diaz: I'm just the, And we are all flawed in some way. We are all affected by people and by circumstances in some way, but that doesn't invalidate anybody as, you know, as far as their existence. Nobody is broken or damaged. We're just all a product of where we came from and and what we've been through.

[00:14:15]

Stephen Licciardello: Talk to us about how you rebuilt your self esteem and how you rebuilt your self worth. Because I have the image, and I'm not sure, Sharlene, if you did this in one of our workshops where you got a piece of paper and you tore bits at it and it was incomplete Yeah. And things like that. So how did you redesign that piece of paper?

[00:14:35]

Dana Diaz: I love the. But, it it was, you know, that night that I asked myself, you know, after the doctor sat me down and said your body's shutting down and all this, and I kind of thought about, like, you know, what do I want in life? That for me was the turning because when I asked myself that very simple question, what do I I knew immediately the answer and it had never changed. I wanted the same things that I had wanted when I was 18 years old and I left my childhood home. I wanted to go be a writer. I wanted to be a speaker. That's what I did in college. That's what I studied. I wanted to steal some help victims.

[00:15:14]

Dana Diaz: That had not changed. So and I also wanted to travel. I love traveling. I love experience, you know. I mean, you can look at pictures and watch YouTube, but I like to go and see and so, you know, I wanna eat the food and stand on the mountain and do all that. And, none of that was gonna happen if I stayed in that cage, you know, that this man had put me in. The thing about the the funny thing about the way our minds work is once you see something and you feel so strongly about like, I couldn't unsee that. I had the vision because the I'm working and I'm thinking, wow.

[00:15:51]

Dana Diaz: I do wanna travel. Where do I want I have a list of places I wanna go. You know? And so the I'm imagining it the that I finally did get that smartphone after I divorced that guy. And I'm on my phone, you know, looking up Australia and the UK and Italy and just looking up and the places I can go see and, you know, what does TripAdvisor say I should do and where what can I eat there? I mean, look at me now. I'm even seeing me on the Sharlene. Like, it lights me up, and I think that's what we lose, you know, whether it's in a relationship or in a situation. We lose our sense of ourself, And I think that's the key is just reconnecting with what we want, you know, that and of tells you who you are. But it was also in the little things in everyday life.

[00:16:42]

Dana Diaz: You know, once he was out of the house, it was, you know, I remember, you know, just little things like, okay, he didn't like me wearing, you know, the. So I wore that dress and I liked it And I liked having, you know, that lipstick that he he would tell me I looked like a whore. Well, I liked it though, and I wore it. And people would tell me I looked nice and, you know, just doing the it it sounds silly and I know a lot of people don't think that these things qualify as self care, but I would argue that they do because I I don't I don't think it matters what it is. If you wanna have a a pint of ice cream for dinner instead of cooking up, you know, the proper meat inside, If it makes your soul happy, if it fills your little happy jar in your head, do it because that's who we are, and it's okay to be who we are. I think we we we sometimes put ourselves in these little boxes of what we should do and what we we shouldn't, you know, and all these appropriate things. To hell with it. Just be who you are because, I mean, if you're living your life authentically, and that's what I learned to do.

[00:17:48]

Dana Diaz: I was just doing what Dana wanted. And it's not a selfish thing, but when you are living true to to to who you are and authentically standing on your own ground and and being you, there is nothing more freeing than that. And when you are giving yourself that permission to do that, I think you're exude, contentment and a joy that you're not gonna find in anything else. And that in it uplifts you. You know, that's where your self esteem starts just in being who you are because I mean, let's be real. Even just something as simple as, like, if you have to well, not we don't have to. But if you go somewhere that you really didn't wanna go, are you really gonna have that good of a time? I mean, you and. You might.

[00:18:37]

Dana Diaz: But, you know, your mind has to be feeling it. You know? So I think that if you're doing the things that make you happy and doing the things that fulfill your that's the life that you're gonna be happy in. And it's unfortunate. Sometimes you have to, you know, move past people you care about and and move beyond situations that aren't serving you. But it's not a selfish thing to be in your best, you know, living your best life and being in your best mental and physical state because that's all gonna come together when you're living off the

[00:19:14]

Stephen Licciardello: Dana, one of the things we talk about is that healing happens in community, but you are also broken in community. And that that puts a lot of issues around how do you then trust a new community. Tell us about the when you

[00:19:28]

Dana Diaz: That's a really good question. No. I'm glad you asked that because that is something people tend to isolate after a traumatic situation or even after getting hurt in a relationship of any type. People tend to isolate. They distrust. Certainly, I went through those things. But when I was ready to start taking care of myself and trying to fix the triggers and learn how to self regulate and go through the therapy for that, I realized that staying at home and avoiding people is not going to heal anything because I could learn all the tools. I could learn the, okay.

[00:20:09]

Dana Diaz: If if somebody triggers me or is upsetting me, breathe, count to 10, you know, put your hand in the cola, all these things you you learn to do to regulate. Well, if nobody's triggering me, how am I gonna learn how to do that? You know? And so it was a tough thing when I'm in therapy and the therapist just point blank. You know, she was a tough one, but it was good. I needed I needed a kick in the ass. But she said, you know, just start slowly. She's like, I'm not telling you to just jump in the deep and. But if you know you're going into a situation, you're feeling anxiety while you're getting ready to go, you're sweating profusely and your breathing's off because you really don't wanna be around this person and your hands are shaking, she's like, just breathe, but go. You have to be around the people that are gonna make things difficult for you, but she said, do it like, you know, it's kinda like how narcissists push the boundaries.

[00:21:07]

Dana Diaz: Just do a little at a time. Dip your toe in the pool. You know? You don't have to go for 2 hours. You can go for 10 minutes. You know? So I learned little things like driving separately from whoever I was going with just so that if I started to really feel uncomfortable, I knew I had kind of that safety net to remove myself, things like that. But it's amazing that even just entering into another love relationship after something like that, a lot of people think, oh, I gotta be alone and I did too. I was gonna go be alone and live in the mountains in North Carolina somewhere with a dog. I I had this fantasy the that was gonna make me happy.

[00:21:46]

Dana Diaz: But I'm glad that my current husband you know, we'd known each other for a very long time and I knew his family, so we already had that established trust. But I was still leery about a romantic relationship because I'm like, honestly, after my whole life experience, I wasn't sure I was capable of having a healthy relationship with anybody, romantically. But, again, I think if you're with the right person, I had to be in those romance you know, in a romantic relationship to be triggered by things to be able to learn how to resolve them. Like, for example, I mean, living with narcissists my whole life, I mean, I I dreaded if there was like disapproval or disagreements because, I mean, I never knew what the consequence would be. And sometimes I'd get the silent treatment for, like, 3, 4 weeks. It was awful, and I was terrified of that. But, like, one of the most wonderful situations that happened between me and my my current husband is that I remember one day he came home and it was just we all have those days where we and take a few steps back and, you know, he came to hug me and I'm like, no. I hate myself today.

[00:22:59]

Dana Diaz: Like, I'm just I don't even like being, you know, being myself right now and all this and that. And he's like, yeah. You've been a little rough today. I didn't like you too much today either, but I still love you. And I was like, what? Like, hold on a second. Like, in my realm of experience, that wasn't possible. And we could even have disagreements, but not fight if that makes any sense. We respectfully disagree.

[00:23:25]

Dana Diaz: There's all these, like, healthy things happening that I would have never experienced or known possible if I wasn't. And I'm not telling everybody go get married to the next person that comes along like I did, but you can certainly go out and date. It's just a meal. It's just a movie. It's just a walk in the park with a coffee, but you have to put yourself in those situations to be able to handle yourself going forward in a healthier way.

[00:23:55]

Sharlene: Yeah. That's that's awesome. And that's really great advice. And I'm wondering, like, what kind of advice could you give someone to look out for? Like, what are the red flags that someone can look out for before they get into a relationship to know if they're gonna be with someone who's narcissistic?

[00:24:11]

Dana Diaz: Ugh. There's so many. There's so many. My I will say though primarily, and I don't care call it a narcissist or not, and it's not so much a red flag, but my biggest thing I tell people is trust your gut. Because we all come from a different background, different cultural experience, different you know, what's a red flag to me might not be one to you, but your gut. Even if there's nothing visible or nothing you can put your finger on, you just don't feel right about somebody, listen to that. I always tell people, we meet people sometimes, you know, and we like them. We have no issue, but we know we're not gonna be best friends.

[00:24:48]

Dana Diaz: Right? You know? And there's nothing wrong with that. It's okay not to connect with everybody. But then you meet some people that you just click with. You're like, where have you been all my life? Like, I think you're my twin from another mother. Like, you we were meant to and. They're like your soulmate, whether it's a friend or but we don't apply that to romantic relationships, though, which is weird to me. We don't wait for that person we click with. We try so hard to force situations.

[00:25:15]

Dana Diaz: You know, we go back to, like, my mother, enabling, tolerating, excusing because we want that love so badly. And who doesn't? We all want it, but my gosh, we need to learn a little more patience. But red flags, some big ones, I think, all around for anybody. If somebody ever insults you, demeans you, belittles you, or you see them doing that, you know, even to the waitress or or to somebody else in your presence, this is somebody who has to make other people feel like crap to feel better about themselves, that would be that's not a situation I would want anybody in. I think that person has some fixing to do, You know? And there might be somebody that's okay with that, but I don't think that's okay. Certainly, somebody that is controlling, if they start controlling or or trying to tell you what to eat, what to wear, who your friends can be, who you can go out with, stuff like the. I'm telling you, as somebody who has finally opened the cage door and been released out in the wild, I don't need anybody telling me what I can eat and that, you know, I can't wear this and wear that. Like, we're all adults.

[00:26:26]

Dana Diaz: Unless you have some physical or mental impairment that requires somebody to guide you in those ways, which I would like to think most people don't, have that situation. Why do you want somebody dictating your life to you? Why why isn't it okay to just be you? And and that's probably my last red flag is if somebody makes you feel bad about being who you are or thinking what you think or having, you know, purple or red hair I can't tell which name is Sharlene, but it's beautiful, by the way. But whatever it is, like, who cares? Like, if they don't love you for who you are and accept you for who you are, move on. You can be friends if it's not the I mean, if that's what you want, and you can never talk to the person again. But you don't need somebody making you feel bad about who you are. You're just fine who you are, and somebody's gonna love you perfectly, wonderfully fine exactly as you are and not gonna wanna change you.

[00:27:22]

Sharlene Licciardello: That's really good. And and I'm just thinking one of the public key factors is learning to love yourself first before you get into a relationship. Right? Like, learning to work on yourself, love yourself instead of yourself.

[00:27:35]

Dana Diaz: Yeah. And I think there is something to be said for that. I I had I mean, we've all heard that, but I think that's what made a difference for me too is when I finally started you know, I don't know if I loved myself right at the end of my first marriage, but I respected myself enough, you know, to remove myself. And then I started kind of blooming in my own right. And, you know, I'm still working on it. I can't come out of 45 years, you know, of being diminished and squashed and subdued and and and all that and just suddenly be like, here I am and I'm fabulous. But but I am learning that actually, it's okay. It's I'm not a selfish or conceited person to look in the mirror and be like, wow.

[00:28:25]

Dana Diaz: I look good in this outfit are, I don't know, I published a book. Oh my god. Like, that's phenomenal. Like, you know, to pat myself on the back and say, good job because I would have never done that before. And so I think there is something to be said for being able to acknowledge those things in who's like, poor me. I suck. I don't wanna be you know? I mean, we all have friends like that and we love them, but it's not who you wanna hang out with and, you know, go to dinner. We gotta be a little more positive, but I think the positive self talk is a good place to start Stephen if it's fake, you know, just to be like, you know what? You know, I for me, it started like that.

[00:29:15]

Dana Diaz: I had a little chalkboard at my desk that I would just every day force myself to write something nice to myself because that inner child in me needed somebody to just give her a little bit of something. But it helped to have my husband too because, you know, this guy is amazing. He doesn't you know, like, my ex I I I always use this example. The only nice thing my ex ever said to me was you're beautiful. You're beautiful. You look good. But he didn't like me as a person. He even told me he don't like me all the time.

[00:29:47]

Dana Diaz: My husband now, he rarely compliments me physically. He doesn't care if I'm fat, skinny. He doesn't care what hair I mean, he just loves me. He'll he'll compliment like, oh, I love the way you wrote this on that page, you know, that book or in your blog are, you know, or, oh, I love how you cook these stuffed peppers for dinner, you know, putting this and that in them. And you know what I mean? He speaks to me and who I am, not to the outward facade. And so, like, I feel like he sees me. And I mean, isn't that great when somebody can really see to your soul and know you as a person, and it's not about what's on the outside?

[00:30:38]

Stephen Licciardello: If someone's picking up your book, what can I expect from it?

[00:30:42]

Dana Diaz: Oh, well, trigger warning. There's a lot in it. I don't hold back. I I think what separates my book from the others that are there are very few books out there speaking about narcissistic experience because, again, most people would rather write how to avoid a narcissist or write about narcissists without speaking to the experience that they had with their abusers. I go real deep. It's a humorous joke, around here is that I type 90 words a minute. So every thought that goes through my head gets put down and into the chapters of these books. But I think that's the real aspect of it, and I think that's why people are connecting with the book because I reveal every thought in my head every step along the way, and some of the thoughts aren't nice.

[00:31:32]

Dana Diaz: Like, when he was driving his motorcycle down the driveway, and I'm thinking, I hope you get in a crash and die, you bastard. I mean, is it nice? No. And that's not who I am. But, God, when you're in that situation and and you're just looking for a way out, I mean, you get desperate to that point. And I think that, like I said, that's what people are connecting with is that it's not always nice and I wasn't always an angel. It takes 2 to create any dynamic. And he pushed me And, you know, I didn't like who he turned me into, but it it's a very real story. It's real.

[00:32:07]

Dana Diaz: It's very toxic, but it needed to be told because, apparently, too many people are in this situation, and I think it makes them feel better to know that there's nothing wrong with them. But they certainly I I've also been helping people get the strength to to move on because I think they need to know that it's gonna be okay on the other side.

[00:32:28]

Sharlene Licciardello: I love that, Dana. And what advice could you give to someone who wants to rewrite their own story today?

[00:32:35]

Dana Diaz: I think it goes back to what I said helped me is just ask yourself that one simple, simple question. What do I want? What do I want? Because I guarantee everybody knows that answer. And I want I want people to answer that without don't think about money. Don't think about intellect. Don't think about resources or possibilities. Just what do you want? I I mean, you wanna go to the moon? I mean, who knows? Maybe, you know, we'll get there. But everybody knows what they want. It's just that nobody has ever asked them that, and nobody has ever really allowed them to pursue that because of whatever bounds have been put around them.

[00:33:19]

Dana Diaz: Although, I would argue now, looking back, we're the ones that put the bounds on ourselves. So ask yourself what you want. Envision it. A lot of people talk about vision boards. I think it's great. Put the picture of the house that you cut out at from a magazine up there because I guarantee you when you're seeing that every day, you know, or or that picture of that baby because you want a baby or whatever it is, you will start even unconsciously moving towards those goals. Because if you want it and you really want it, you'll find a way. Yeah.

[00:33:53]

Stephen Licciardello: You know, it's really interesting that you said that because this just 2 days ago, we were having lunch with someone, and they were, like, quite small in their goal setting abilities. And and as, I think said as long as I've got this, this, and this, I'm happy. And we're, like, challenging them. And he was like, what? So you think I should write a list of, like, we Sharlene him to write a list of a and things they want. And he said, so what? I could put go to the moon? I'm like, yeah. Why not? And you've just mentioned that as well. We don't know. Yeah.

[00:34:24]

Stephen Licciardello: You might be able to

[00:34:26]

Dana Diaz: You know what? I wanted, like I said, to write. I wanted to travel, and my third answer to myself was I wanted to be married. I because I wanted to be somebody's wife. I just wanted to be happy. And I am 3 months and 3 3 years 3 months out of that relationship. And this year, I published my first book. I am or I'm sorry. That was last year.

[00:34:48]

Dana Diaz: This year, I will be publishing the next 2. They're already written. We're in the process. I have 2 more books coming out. I am remarried. The our 1st year of marriage, we went on 9 trips around the world together. Last year, we only did 5. We gotta work on this year, but publishing costs are high.

[00:35:06]

Dana Diaz: But I would have never 3 years 3 months ago, I would have never thought I would have even crossed one of those things off my list.

[00:35:15]

Stephen Licciardello: Wow.

[00:35:16]

Dana Diaz: I wasn't gonna stop when when when I had the opportunity. And plus, I I just turned 48. Like, I I mean, let's be real. I don't know how much time any of us have left, but I had to get moving on my goals. But it of cornfields, and I can do the, I'm pretty sure that that person you talk to will go to the moon. It might be a few years. It might be longer than 3 years, but you don't know. You don't know.

[00:35:47]

Dana Diaz: But we should all at least entertain what we want because that that idea Stephen that we can is what gives us that power and and that that goal, that focus and our potential and and everything that lies ahead of us. And we all need to have hope of something.

[00:36:06]

Sharlene Licciardello: That's and, Dana. If you could go back now and rewrite your life story, what would that look like?

[00:36:12]

Dana Diaz: I I'm gonna be one of those people that always says that I think I'm I'm I'm truly living my purpose now. I think I had to go through all that so that I could use my given talents of speaking and writing to connect with people who are still in that experience. But the only thing that I wish were different you know, the sounds weird, but, I mean, who doesn't want their mommy? You know? I just wish that I wish that my mother and I could've figured out a way to have any kind of relationship because, I mean, it's hard to be a girl and not have your mom. So that's the only thing I wish was different. But everything else, it it would be hard to change one thing without the domino effect because I love my son, and I I I wouldn't have had anything to write a book about. And, you know, there's so many things that would have changed if I changed anything, but I want my mommy still. Yeah. You know?

[00:37:09]

Stephen Licciardello: And, Dana, thank you for being so open, honest, and true. And we know that your story is gonna help a lot of people. So thank you for being on our show. And if you wanna know more about Dana and her book, you can access the link from the show notes, which will take you to her website where you can get a copy of her book. So, Dana, once again, thank you for being on our show.

[00:37:28]

Sharlene Licciardello: Thank you so much.

[00:37:29]

Dana Diaz: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:37:31]

Stephen Licciardello: What a strong person.

[00:37:33]

Sharlene Licciardello: Absolutely. I just love that she's such a tenacious little thing growing up as the. Yeah. That really police serve to help off with some of that, what she was going through.

[00:37:43]

Stephen Licciardello: Yeah. Yeah. And there's a couple of things that really stood out to me. I guess, the, her tenacity. But I think 2, is what her psychologist or or who she was getting therapy said that you've gotta be around people that trigger you in order to grow in order to know how you do it. She also said, if no one triggers you, how are you gonna learn to regulate? Yeah. And I thought that was quite a good thing because sometimes we say healing happens in community, but we don't actually have never actually said, you know, you're gonna be triggered in these communities, but it's actually for your own good and for your own benefit.

[00:38:16]

Sharlene Licciardello: Absolutely. But the thing is as well that I love is that she took it a little bit at a time. Like, you don't have to go all the way out, you know, just taking little steps along along the way just to make sure you still feel safe enough, but also still pushing yourself out of those boundaries.

[00:38:31]

Stephen Licciardello: And I think one of the key things that I really took out of it is her ability to get out of the situation with was with the question, what do I want out of life? What do I really want? What do I wanna achieve? What are my goals? What are my dreams? Who do I wanna be? And I thought that was really important.

[00:38:48]

Dana Diaz: So true.

[00:38:48]

Sharlene Licciardello: So true. And I think, like, a lot of people think, well, you know, they think about what they don't want, and they focus on that. And then they think about what they actually do want to become or what they want to achieve.

[00:39:00]

Stephen Licciardello: So it's just that one little pivot

[00:39:03]

Sharlene Licciardello: Yeah. In

[00:39:03]

Stephen Licciardello: asking yourself what do I actually want out of life?